Is it ok to give a sketch artist feedback if something looks off?
 

Hi all,

So I was wondering, since we have some artists on the forum, would you (as an artist) appreciate if someone gave honest feedback?

For example, I know we've all seen some crazy detailed sketches of faces, but maybe the eyes are just off or the face is too long for the subject and you notice a pattern of it. But it's like other than one small feature everything looks amazing, but it's just glaring and stands out.

Should you say something to the artist in a positive, constructive way? Perhaps they don't see it, or no one has ever said something so they keep doing it? It's kind of like telling someone there's something in their teeth. It's awkward to do, but most of the time they'd thank you.

I have an example in mind, but don't want to post yet since I'd like some feedback first before sharing the sketch.

If you have nothing nice to say then don't say anything at all. :)

[QUOTE=FAKadar;12248959]If you have nothing nice to say then don't say anything at all. :)[/QUOTE]

Well it's not that it's all negative, but let's say it's a Penix quality sketch for example, but then make the eyes look weird in scale or something, but you see a pattern of it for an artist. Maybe eyes are their weak spot? But if they get constructive feedback, like how everything else is awesome, maybe they can work on it for next time, right?

I'm not an artist, so I can't say how i'd take it, but I know how hard it is to draw.

[QUOTE=Vargaman;12248967]Well it's not that it's all negative, but let's say it's a Penix quality sketch for example, but then make the eyes look weird in scale or something, but you see a pattern of it for an artist. Maybe eyes are their weak spot? But if they get constructive feedback, like how everything else is awesome, maybe they can work on it for next time, right?

I'm not an artist, so I can't say how i'd take it, but I know how hard it is to draw.[/QUOTE]

You said it yourself, you're not an artist.

I personally wouldn't feel comfortable doing that. Unless it was a glaring mistake in a commissioned sketch (AFAIK, this character doesn't have three arms... or something along those lines) I just enjoy the art as is.

"praise in public, criticize in private"

I've known/seen/read about many cases where artists are so wrapped up in their own little world that trying to engage them in conversation is a useless task. A lot of the time though, if you have something to point out, they will listen.

The whole "you are not an artist, shut up" is overly defensive and not helpful at all.

As long as it's constructive, it's fine and I'm more than happy to try to fix it. And by 'constructive', I'm talking about pointing out specific things that might be a little off without berating me. Sometimes, us artists get into a zone where we might unintentionally replicate certain features of a subject without thinking, and subconsciously draw them onto another subject who may not have those exact features (i.e. replicating one nose style on another card where the subject may have a different type of nose).

However, I've had a few customers just flat-out say things like, "...the eyes are off...he looks bad...I don't like the sketch card", and that type of feedback is not only rude, but it offers no further insight into why the artwork is off, and it makes me never want to work that that customer again. Granted, this has been a very rare thing for me, but it's happened.

I recently had a customer give me an offensive review of a piece I did for him (which happened to be a free piece as an apology for taking long to finish commissions that were paid for up-front). The fact that I went out of my way to make it a free piece, only to have him offer up an 'I don't like it' comment instead of constructive criticism, rubbed me the wrong way.

[QUOTE=jrosales;12249160]As long as it's constructive, it's fine and I'm more than happy to try to fix it. And by 'constructive', I'm talking about pointing out specific things that might be a little off without berating me. Sometimes, us artists get into a zone where we might unintentionally replicate certain features of a subject without thinking, and subconsciously draw them onto another subject who may not have those exact features (i.e. replicating one nose style on another card where the subject may have a different type of nose).

However, I've had a few customers just flat-out say things like, "...the eyes are off...he looks bad...I don't like the sketch card", and that type of feedback is not only rude, but it offers no further insight into why the artwork is off, and it makes me never want to work that that customer again. Granted, this has been a very rare thing for me, but it's happened.

I recently had a customer give me an offensive review of a piece I did for him (which happened to be a free piece as an apology for taking long to finish commissions that were paid for up-front). The fact that I went out of my way to make it a free piece, only to have him offer up an 'I don't like it' comment instead of constructive criticism, rubbed me the wrong way.[/QUOTE]

Which is what I meant, giving specifics and not generalizing or saying the whole thing is bad.

I'm talking specifically about one part of it that just kinda takes away from the look.

I'd rarely say something is garbage, except in the case of a clear 2 second pencil sketch like those Indiana Jones monkeys everyone seemed to get stuck with.

I don't know that I would post it publicly.

[QUOTE=jrosales;12249160]As long as it's constructive, it's fine and I'm more than happy to try to fix it. And by 'constructive', I'm talking about pointing out specific things that might be a little off without berating me. Sometimes, us artists get into a zone where we might unintentionally replicate certain features of a subject without thinking, and subconsciously draw them onto another subject who may not have those exact features (i.e. replicating one nose style on another card where the subject may have a different type of nose).

However, I've had a few customers just flat-out say things like, [B]"...the eyes are off...he looks bad...I don't like the sketch card[/B]", and that type of feedback is not only rude, but it offers no further insight into why the artwork is off, and it makes me never want to work that that customer again. Granted, this has been a very rare thing for me, but it's happened.

I recently had a customer give me an offensive review of a piece I did for him (which happened to be a free piece as an apology for taking long to finish commissions that were paid for up-front). The fact that I went out of my way to make it a free piece, only to have him offer up an 'I don't like it' comment instead of constructive criticism, rubbed me the wrong way.[/QUOTE]

Wow that last example is beyond rude and ungrateful. Regarding the part in bold though, maybe give that person the benefit of the doubt and try to extract from the customer what he/she didn't like - ask him/her leading questions. The customer may just need you to ask the right questions for you to gain constructive feedback. Now if he/she responds with something like "I just don't like it - that's all" then you move on. But I don't think I'd dismiss that person as "rude" based on just those comments.

For context, here's the one I saw, which I think you can guess what sticks out about it, my coworkers who love star wars too saw the same thing, minor but evident on each one.[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170504/14d722962a9e778c09edf60764a143cf.jpg[/IMG]

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

Correct answer: depends on the artist.

the sketches look nice... I'm guessing the upper lip is the flaw???

[QUOTE=Super J;12249643]the sketches look nice... I'm guessing the upper lip is the flaw???[/QUOTE]

More so the noses, Leia's is very bulbous and Ford's looks like Butthead, but the rest of the face and sketch looks amazing!

But yeah I see the lips now too a bit.

Faces look Cartoonish to me

this thread is getting ridiculous

But I'm again saying in general, let's not pile on the above example.

I've seen plenty of other faces with similar kinds of small details that if changed would look perfect.

To me if you're commissioning an artist for a piece and you feel something is off you need to tell them even if you're not sure what exactly it is. You have to be happy with what you are buying.

it just looks stylized to me. A lot of the painted film posters for the original trilogy for example featured portraits that looked nothing like the actors.

My suggestion is to point out to the artist what you don't like specifically, then "politely" ask the artist to "improve" or "touch up IF POSSIBLE", AND most importantly, offer the artist incentive... $10-$20 extra can sometimes go a long way for an average $50-$100 sketch... :)

[QUOTE=Vargaman;12249653]More so the noses, Leia's is very bulbous and Ford's looks like Butthead, but the rest of the face and sketch looks amazing!

But yeah I see the lips now too a bit.[/QUOTE]

#nofilter ;)

[QUOTE=Vargaman;12249653]More so the noses, Leia's is very bulbous and Ford's looks like Butthead, but the rest of the face and sketch looks amazing!

But yeah I see the lips now too a bit.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like you know better, maybe you can draw something better than the artist?

Unless you're an art director or a client, you don't give unwanted feedback to an artist. If you continue to do it and publicly, you're just being a dick.

My own view would be :

- if it's a commission, by all means feedback your thoughts in a constructive way
- if it's stuff on eBay / Facebook, I would ONLY ever present any feedback IN PRIVATE and ONLY if the artist had specifically solicited feedback ... again keeping it constructive

More broad feedback is more OK in public, IMHO - like "I love your stuff but I wish you'd do more scenes / more Wookiees / etc"

I must say I've become more discerning about my card purchases where I probably start to get very picky ... with the amount of good stuff out there I have had to do this to stop me trying to buy everything (lol). And I must say some cards look great at first and as I scrutinise it more, I sometimes put myself off it due to an eye, or a lip, or a nose not being quite right. Depends on the style obviously, some artists' styles are a bit more abstract where "accuracy / photo realism" is not the point at all.

On the other hand - when artists get it spot on, it adds an amazing appeal to me, and I have paid a higher price to acquire the card. One or two in particular that I bought recently I have marvelled over how flawless and lifelike the eyes are in particular (I'm no expert but I imagine eyes must be one of the hardest things to get right). Even under heavy zoom they look absolutely exquisite ... it's that sort of "wow" that makes that card so very special.

To quote George Takei:

Words can hurt, even when they are said with good intentions.

Here's an example of the nose... I offered to pay the artist extra and I specifically asked the artist "if it's possible to make the nose looks more realistic by applying lighting & shadowing over the black lines..." and she DID it! and I LOVE it! :)!

[IMG]http://sketchcollectors.com/gallery/6102stuff/1493926979.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=FAKadar;12249954]Sounds like you know better, maybe you can draw something better than the artist?[/QUOTE]

I don't understand why you are so against receiving feedback. Most jobs have performance reviews. Big artists have exhibits where art critics write up reviews that get published in large magazines. What in the world is wrong with giving constructive feedback to an artist on their sketch cards?

I wouldn't do it publicly, but I don't see anything wrong with politely telling an artist that there is something "off" in regard to a feature. Just do it discreetly. Just like I do with employees who do great work, but need to improve in a certain area.

[QUOTE=Vargaman;12249653][QUOTE]More so the noses, Leia's is very bulbous and Ford's looks like Butthead, but the rest of the face and sketch looks amazing![/QUOTE]

is that a compliment!? wtf. you insult the hell out the work and than say its amazing.

this thread is trash! mods better delete it as its going to get ugly!...its a bad look for the hobby, artist, collectors and solves nothing.

[QUOTE=RIP4CASH;12250100][QUOTE=Vargaman;12249653]

is that a compliment!? wtf. you insult the hell out the work and than say its amazing.

this thread is trash! mods better delete it as its going to get ugly!...its a bad look for the hobby, artist, collectors and solves nothing.[/QUOTE]

Has not violated the TOS in anyway that I can see. :doh::doh:

[QUOTE=Cavaliercards;12250113][QUOTE=RIP4CASH;12250100]

Has not violated the TOS in anyway that I can see. :doh::doh:[/QUOTE]

I think the topic is fine. But given the sensitivity of the subject I don't think posting specific examples is a good idea. (Just my opinion).

[QUOTE=jamesr;12250167][QUOTE=Cavaliercards;12250113]

I think the topic is fine. But given the sensitivity of the subject I don't think posting specific examples is a good idea. (Just my opinion).[/QUOTE]

I think since he had a specific issue he should post it instead of being vague.

If that was a commissioned sketch I understand his concern and think giving feedback is helpful to the next customer.

[QUOTE=Faulkenburg;12250065]I don't understand why you are so against receiving feedback. Most jobs have performance reviews. Big artists have exhibits where art critics write up reviews that get published in large magazines. What in the world is wrong with giving constructive feedback to an artist on their sketch cards?

I wouldn't do it publicly, but I don't see anything wrong with politely telling an artist that there is something "off" in regard to a feature. Just do it discreetly. Just like I do with employees who do great work, but need to improve in a certain area.[/QUOTE]

So people tearing apart that artist's 3 piece sketch card in this thread is constructive feedback?

What gives you the right to tear an artist's work apart. Unwarranted feedback is that, unwarranted.

Also the fact doing this publicly, any artist will see this and will not want to to do business with person or people or giving this unwarranted feedback. You're just making yourself look bad.

[QUOTE=Faulkenburg;12250065]I don't understand why you are so against receiving feedback. Most jobs have performance reviews. Big artists have exhibits where art critics write up reviews that get published in large magazines. What in the world is wrong with giving constructive feedback to an artist on their sketch cards?

I wouldn't do it publicly, but I don't see anything wrong with politely telling an artist that there is something "off" in regard to a feature. Just do it discreetly. Just like I do with employees who do great work, but need to improve in a certain area.[/QUOTE]

Performance reviews at most jobs are given by the manager, not the customer. Most artists are their own "manager", so it's up to them to review their work and, if they wish, solicit feedback.

[QUOTE=FAKadar;12250181]So people tearing apart that artist's 3 piece sketch card in this thread is constructive feedback?

What gives you the right to tear an artist's work apart. Unwarranted feedback is that, unwarranted.

Also the fact doing this publicly, any artist will see this and will not want to to do business with person or people or giving this unwarranted feedback. You're just making yourself look bad.[/QUOTE]

Same right that art critics for centuries have had when they enter a gallery, museum, home, etc.

If an artist can not take feedback or criticism then they might want to find another profession.

:doh::doh::doh:

[QUOTE=jamesr;12250188]Performance reviews at most jobs are given by the manager, not the customer. Most artists are their own "manager", so it's up to them to review their work and, if they wish, solicit feedback.[/QUOTE]

Art is different hence the term art critic. Why newspapers and magazines for years in major cities had art critics.

[QUOTE=Cavaliercards;12250176][QUOTE=jamesr;12250167]

I think since he had a specific issue he should post it instead of being vague.

If that was a commissioned sketch I understand his concern and think giving feedback is helpful to the next customer.[/QUOTE]

Privately, yes. This is now public.

[QUOTE=jamesr;12250198][QUOTE=Cavaliercards;12250176]

Privately, yes. This is now public.[/QUOTE]

Not at all, no reason to be shy or hide away from criticism in life.

[QUOTE=Cavaliercards;12250194]Same right that art critics for centuries have had when they enter a gallery, museum, home, etc.

If an artist can not take feedback or criticism then they might want to find another profession.

:doh::doh::doh:[/QUOTE]

So you consider yourself an art critic now?

[QUOTE=FAKadar;12250225]So you consider yourself an art critic now?[/QUOTE]

right or wrong, good or bad, everyone is an art critic. that is what makes art, art.

some like it, some hate it.

This is going to be a fun thread.

[QUOTE=glen87;12250267]right or wrong, good or bad, everyone is an art critic. that is what makes art, art.

some like it, some hate it.[/QUOTE]

some guys have all the luck, some guys have all the pain.

[QUOTE=FAKadar;12250225]So you consider yourself an art critic now?[/QUOTE]

Yes, as anyone can be one based on their experience and personal opinion.

[QUOTE=glen87;12250267]right or wrong, good or bad, everyone is an art critic. that is what makes art, art.

some like it, some hate it.[/QUOTE]

Bingo, when thousands of people are walking galleries and museums in DC, Paris, Rome, New York, London, St. Petersburg and more many comment on what they like and do not like, as well as admiring the famous pieces.

.....

H edit: Original post:

[QUOTE]here's a photoshop fix for the nose & lips... perhaps sending leia back to the artist and ask if it's possible to touch up... AND DON'T FORGET to offer extra payment... it will be a win win :)!
[IMG]http://i65.tinypic.com/25ouhkh.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=FAKadar;12250181]So people tearing apart that artist's 3 piece sketch card in this thread is constructive feedback?

What gives you the right to tear an artist's work apart. Unwarranted feedback is that, unwarranted.

Also the fact doing this publicly, any artist will see this and will not want to to do business with person or people or giving this unwarranted feedback. You're just making yourself look bad.[/QUOTE]

Read my comments again, Frank. I clearly stated to not do it publicly and explicitly stated to use discretion. I don't agree with the Ops decision to post the actual art.

Also, I think you are confusing"unwarranted" and "unsolicited".

[QUOTE=Cavaliercards;12250334]Bingo, when thousands of people are walking galleries and museums in DC, Paris, Rome, New York, London, St. Petersburg and more many comment on what they like and do not like, as well as admiring the famous pieces.[/QUOTE]

So this gives anyone the right to tear an artist work apart publicly like some people have here with that Star Wars 3 piece puzzle?

I only give feedback on changes when I'm asked for it. Just got done working with an artist who sent me pencils for approval that allowed me to ask for little tweaks. But that's what the artist WANTED. (And I still felt like a PITA when I asked for little tweaks...)

I try not to get in the way of an artist creating her/his art. I will provide an overview of what I would like, with the level of detail the artist requests, then get the heck out of the way. Artists are not mind-readers, so I usually won't get something that is exactly what I had in my head. I will get something that reflects what the artist did with what I gave them. Most of the time, what I get back is much better than what I envisioned (true for both Juan and Frank, who've drawn the same character for me and gave me very different versions of her that are both awesome). Not always, but if you trust the artist to do their thing, you will get good work way more often than not, in my experience.

[QUOTE=FAKadar;12250621]So this gives anyone the right to tear an artist work apart publicly like some people have here with that Star Wars 3 piece puzzle?[/QUOTE]

Yes it does.

[QUOTE=Cavaliercards;12250887]Yes it does.[/QUOTE]

I disagree. This artist did solid work. They put forth significant effort. Granted, the noses are off but that didn't call for public shaming. The noses aren't even"bad", certainly not worth all this. The original question was if it would have been out of line to mention this to the artist privately. The members on this board crossed that line ages ago.

I still say there is nothing wrong with constructive feedback in a private manner.

Now, when it comes to 30 second crap sketches in a $150 box....go at it, but give the publisher just as much (if not more) flack for it.

As a collector, I can see how one little aspect can ruin a piece for you. One time I asked an artist to change a little bit about a sketch I commissioned. I only did it after I had a thought out and well articulated response, so I didn't offend the artist. The member saying to give extra payment as incentive is kinda odd to me. Is that a normal response?

On the other hand, artists that are attempting "photorealism" type portraits are probably prepared for some sort of feedback. Anatomical positions and proportions has gotta be one of the hardest things to get right, but when they do it is really gratifying and evident. And when it is "off", it is glaring.

[QUOTE=Faulkenburg;12250988]I disagree. This artist did solid work. They put forth significant effort. Granted, the noses are off but that didn't call for public shaming. The noses aren't even"bad", certainly not worth all this. The original question was if it would have been out of line to mention this to the artist privately. The members on this board crossed that line ages ago.

I still say there is nothing wrong with constructive feedback in a private manner.

Now, when it comes to 30 second crap sketches in a $150 box....go at it, but give the publisher just as much (if not more) flack for it.[/QUOTE]

Again art varies per person, I am not saying effort was not put forth.

I can walk into the National Gallery tomorrow and look at a photograph and say it is hideous and the artist did a poor job, you can be beside me and show me where you think my opinion is wrong. Guess what? We both are right.

It's the Internet. Criticize who you want, how you want, and be prepared for the fallout.

Remember before the Internet?

I wouldn't say anything, art is subjective. There is no "right" or "wrong". What you may perceive as a flaw or inaccuracy, in reality may just be their style. If you like it, buy it, if not, don't buy it. Especially if you're not even an artist yourself in the same field. I don't work construction, know nothing about it, so I'm not going to walk down to a construction site and tell them I think they're doing it wrong.

Slightly different, but I write and record my own music. I already know what flaws I have, and my style evolves because of the self-awareness, which I feel most true artists have in abundance. If someone (who doesn't even play music) ever tried to inform me of a way to "improve" any of my songs, I would consider that person to be an entitled, self-absorbed moron who thinks they are an expert in every field. You either like the art in question, or you do not.

The Seinfeld clip about the heckler comes to mind here.

[QUOTE=Cavaliercards;12251022]Again art varies per person, I am not saying effort was not put forth.

I can walk into the National Gallery tomorrow and look at a photograph and say it is hideous and the artist did a poor job, you can be beside me and show me where you think my opinion is wrong. Guess what? We both are right.[/QUOTE]

You are absolutely correct, you CAN. The question posed here is if we should. It is my opinion that when someone puts forth true effort, confidential feedback is acceptable while public shaming is not.

I don't really have anything further to say on the matter.

[QUOTE=Faulkenburg;12251117]You are absolutely correct, you CAN. The question posed here is if we should. It is my opinion that when someone puts forth true effort, confidential feedback is acceptable while public shaming is not.

I don't really have anything further to say on the matter.[/QUOTE]

Yes you should as it creates intelligent dialogue about the subject.

This is not public shaming at all.

[QUOTE=Faulkenburg;12250988]
Now, when it comes to 30 second crap sketches in a $150 box....go at it, but give the publisher just as much (if not more) flack for it.[/QUOTE]

This is a good point. An artist might submit a rough sketch due to time constraints or laziness but it's ultimately up to [B][U]Topps[/U][/B]/Upper Deck to reject some of the bad sketches.

No matter what the subject (art, driving, cooking, fashion, you name it...), I find that unsolicited feedback can frequently not end well regardless of the well meaning intentions.

I've wondered the same thing as the OP. Frankly some sketches are way off facially and I would stay away from those artists. If I did like the style, it might be helpful to offer polite constructive criticism.

It may be that I am very visual and a former pro photographer. Through the years I have learned from someone pointing out things in my photos, lighting is a big subject in photos, angles and composition also. I have appreciated the help.

It is all subjective so there's no right or wrong. There are feelings and personalities involved so no answer is easy.

imho,
Vinny

[QUOTE=FAKadar;12249992]Unless you're an art director or a client, you don't give unwanted feedback to an artist. If you continue to do it and publicly, you're just being a dick.[/QUOTE]


Publicly, yes; I don't think it was appropriate for OP to post those examples on the first page...

...but just because one is not an artist does not mean they cannot give constructive feedback if they see something they don't like. Art is for an audience after all, and the audience doesn't have to be capable of doing it themselves to be able to say "that's not good. that needs improvement, here here and here."

I think the key here is being polite, constructive, and respectful. "The eyes on that guy suck" is a lot diffferent than saying, "do you think the eyes might be a little too far apart?" If an artist cannot handle a little constructive, respectful criticism-- no matter who it's from-- he's a bit too sensitive if you ask me.

Certainly a non-artist's opinion should be taken for what it's worth to the artist, but not summarily dismissed, nor is it inherently rude.

A fresh set of eyes, whether professional or not, can sometimes bring a new and needed perspective.

[QUOTE=A Levine;12251629]Publicly, yes; I don't think it was appropriate for OP to post those examples on the first page...

...but just because one is not an artist does not mean they cannot give constructive feedback if they see something they don't like. Art is for an audience after all, and the audience doesn't have to be capable of doing it themselves to be able to say "that's not good. that needs improvement, here here and here."

I think the key here is being polite, constructive, and respectful. "The eyes on that guy suck" is a lot diffferent than saying, "do you think the eyes might be a little too far apart?" If an artist cannot handle a little constructive, respectful criticism-- no matter who it's from-- he's a bit too sensitive if you ask me.

Certainly a non-artist's opinion should be taken for what it's worth to the artist, but not summarily dismissed, nor is it inherently rude.

A fresh set of eyes, whether professional or not, can sometimes bring a new and needed perspective.[/QUOTE]

Sadly, most (not all) people do not take non-positive feedback well. I hate managing people.

[QUOTE=A Levine;12251629]Publicly, yes; I don't think it was appropriate for OP to post those examples on the first page...

...but just because one is not an artist does not mean they cannot give constructive feedback if they see something they don't like. [B]Art is for an audience after all,[/B] and the audience doesn't have to be capable of doing it themselves to be able to say "that's not good. that needs improvement, here here and here."

I think the key here is being polite, constructive, and respectful. "The eyes on that guy suck" is a lot diffferent than saying, "do you think the eyes might be a little too far apart?" If an artist cannot handle a little constructive, respectful criticism-- no matter who it's from-- he's a bit too sensitive if you ask me.

Certainly a non-artist's opinion should be taken for what it's worth to the artist, but not summarily dismissed, nor is it inherently rude.

A fresh set of eyes, whether professional or not, can sometimes bring a new and needed perspective.[/QUOTE]

This is where the great divide exists. Artists do not make "art" FOR other people. They do it for themselves, with the understanding that not all will embrace it, though some will.

If I made art for other people, I would never win, I would not be an artist, I would be a prostitute.

Say I take your feedback into consideration, and apply it. Then someone else says to do the opposite. Who is correct? Art is not intended to be universal to everyone. Nothing is. There is no right or wrong. So if an artist is not doing something in the way they see fit by their own mind's interpretation, then what are they?

Frank may have been a bit brusque in his posts, but his message is spot on...and here's the reason why:

[B][I]Unless you're an artist, you'll never know how much an artist beats him or herself up over every little detail of a piece once it has been completed.[/I][/B]

So yes, hearing from people who will proudly declare that they "can't draw a stick figure" why your art isn't "perfect" makes you want to rip your face off and tear it into little pieces of face confetti.

Sketch card collectors are by and large a spoiled lot who have forgotten that once upon a time, sketch cards were just that...pencil sketches.

So when a card isn't a piece of art that they can flip for big bucks, they want to tear it down. Why do you think so many artists move on from sketch cards as quickly as they can? It's just not worth the peanuts you get paid to bust your ass to do the work.

So when do we get to the part where we bash Mike Mignola, Tim Sale, Art Baltazar, and Katie Cook for their work? After all it's not on scale, right?

[QUOTE=darth*winbid*;12251716]This is where the great divide exists. Artists do not make "art" FOR other people. They do it for themselves, with the understanding that not all will embrace it, thought some will.

If I made art for other people, I would never win, I would not be an artist, I would be a prostitute.

Say I take your feedback into consideration, and apply it. Then someone else says to do the opposite. Who is correct? Art is not intended to be universal to everyone. Nothing is. There is no right or wrong. So if an artist is not doing something in the way they see fit by their own mind's interpretation, then what are they?[/QUOTE]

Art has historically-- and still is-- created to be appreciated by others. If you want to do it for yourself, and never show anyone, that's fine. I do it all the time.

But once you show it to someone, particularly as an artist on sketch cards who do it for card companies to be put into a product that will be sold to collectors, there is nothing wrong with someone offering respectful constructive criticism.

I am frankly flabbergasted that people would have a problem with that. That is all. I shall say no more on the subject.

[QUOTE=Vargaman;12249233]For context, here's the one I saw, which I think you can guess what sticks out about it, my coworkers who love star wars too saw the same thing, minor but evident on each one.[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170504/14d722962a9e778c09edf60764a143cf.jpg[/IMG]

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

I'm looking at this and there is no doubt that the artist put a lot of time and effort into these sketches. I just dont see the problem with their noses. I'd love to have this as part of my collection.

[QUOTE=A Levine;12251846]Art has historically-- and still is-- created to be appreciated by others. If you want to do it for yourself, and never show anyone, that's fine. I do it all the time.

But once you show it to someone, particularly as an artist on sketch cards who do it for card companies to be put into a product that will be sold to collectors, there is nothing wrong with someone offering respectful constructive criticism.

I am frankly flabbergasted that people would have a problem with that. That is all. I shall say no more on the subject.[/QUOTE]

I understand your angle, but at the end of the day, my point is valid. If Topps says to me, "we want you to draw this", then I am not an artist, I am providing a service in the same way that someone comes to the register and orders a hamburger from me, and I ring them up and provide it for them.

It is possible to create art for yourself, art that you yourself are happy with, and present it to the world. Their reaction is irrelevant, you create art, and present it, and that's it. You are an artist. I didn't mean to imply that "for yourself" means "keeping it to yourself". It does not.

Again, I'm not a sketcher/drawer type, I only write songs. But I do it for myself, and then throw it out there for all. Reactions will never be all positive or all negative, regardless of the art medium. I just can't fathom the idea of listening to people tell me "how" to write a song, or draw a picture, or paint a painting. That is silly and demoralizing to the spirit.

I also understand OP has well-meaning intentions, but it is like telling someone, I don't like your pants. Or wanting a safe space from other people's art. Buy it or don't. No consumer of it is 100% right or wrong, and I will continue making it as long as it pleases me, and I am happy with my work.

I think (most) everyone here is partially in the right. It's all interpretive, so there is no universal answer. "You do you" is probably the best response IMO. Because I certainly would not listen to anyone not close to me personally questioning something I'm doing, be it art, driving, mowing my lawn, etc etc.

[QUOTE=dukestr89;12251885]I'm looking at this and there is no doubt that the artist put a lot of time and effort into these sketches. I just dont see the problem with their noses. I'd love to have this as part of my collection.[/QUOTE]

My point exactly. No right, no wrong. I think they're freaking great sketches, and I personally see no flaws.

[QUOTE=darth*winbid*;12251927]I understand your angle, but at the end of the day, my point is valid. If Topps says to me, "we want you to draw this", then I am not an artist, I am providing a service in the same way that someone comes to the register and orders a hamburger from me, and I ring them up and provide it for them.

It is possible to create art for yourself, art that you yourself are happy with, and present it to the world. Their reaction is irrelevant, you do art, and present it, and that's it. You are an artist. I didn't mean to imply that "for yourself" means "keeping it to yourself". It does not.

Again, I'm not a sketcher/drawer type, I only write songs. But I do it for myself, and then throw it out there for all. Reactions will never be all positive or all negative, regardless of the art medium. I just can't fathom the idea of listening to people tell me "how" to write a song, or draw a picture, or paint a painting. That is silly and demoralizing to the spirit.

I also understand OP has well-meaning intentions, but it is like telling someone, I don't like your pants. Or wanting a safe space from other people's art. Buy it or don't. No consumer of it is 100% right or wrong, and I will continue making it as long as it pleases me, and I am happy with my work.

I think (most) everyone here is partially in the right. It's all interpretive, so there is no universal answer. "You do you" is probably the best response IMO. Because I certainly would not listen to anyone not close to me personally questioning something I'm doing, be it art, driving, mowing my lawn, etc etc.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure I understand you're POV on this subject, as it seems to me that sketch cards fit into that first bucket in which the artist is "providing a service" to the company that solicited them to create the sketch cards, and therefore are not artists?

[QUOTE=Spider-Fan;12252020]I'm not sure I understand you're POV on this subject, as it seems to me that sketch cards fit into that first bucket in which the artist is "providing a service" to the company that solicited them to create the sketch cards, and therefore are not artists?[/QUOTE]

If someone is telling me exactly how to draw something, I don't consider myself an "artist". Be it song/sketch/painting. I may be providing a "talent", but that is a service, not an art. It takes "talent" to do literally anything exceptionally, what makes an artist is original vision, not compliance. I don't mean if Topps says, "we want Greedo". That is an acceptable request. Saying "the eyes or noses should be..." is not acceptable IMO. I sketch Greedo, you either approve or pass (as Topps). I will not start drawing in a way that someone else thinks I should. If I did that, I would not be an artist, but merely a person with subjective "talent". Artists have vision and ideas....they do not paint-by-numbers on demand.

I mean, for example, I don't sing like Eddie Vedder. I can't. Should I because someone says "that's what we're looking for"? No. They either like what I submit, or they don't. If I don't sing/draw in the way they want, it doesn't mean I'm flawed. It means there is no right/wrong in art, and it's just not what they were looking for. Be it Topps or the people who view the Topps approved sketch cards.

[QUOTE=darth*winbid*;12252064]If someone is telling me exactly how to draw something, I don't consider myself an "artist". [/QUOTE]

It's more like someone saying -- "I'd like your music more if there were more cowbell". . . Than anyone telling anyone exactly how to do anything. . .

I think the correct response to the original question was -- it depends on the artist. I've had great conversations with friends who are artists regarding how to get their work to appeal to a wider audience. . . Other artists aren't interested in that.

[QUOTE=webjon;12252128]It's more like someone saying -- "I'd like your music more if there were more cowbell". . . Than anyone telling anyone exactly how to do anything. . .

I think the correct response to the original question was -- it depends on the artist. I've had great conversations with friends who are artists regarding how to get their work to appeal to a wider audience. . . Other artists aren't interested in that.[/QUOTE]

Who TF wants more cowbell? haha

:)! I kid, I get what you're saying.

[QUOTE=Cavaliercards;12251128]Yes you should as it creates intelligent dialogue about the subject.

This is not public shaming at all.[/QUOTE]

"Intelligent dialogue" ??? From these boards and you?? lol

[QUOTE=Cujobyte;12252426]"Intelligent dialogue" ??? From these boards and you?? lol[/QUOTE]

Yes, but you fail to see that.

[QUOTE=6102stuff;12250423]here's a photoshop fix for the nose & lips... perhaps sending leia back to the artist and ask if it's possible to touch up... AND DON'T FORGET to offer extra payment... it will be a win win :)!
[IMG]http://i65.tinypic.com/25ouhkh.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Nice job. I like the one on the right