1) Jordan - This isn't an argument
2) LBJ - Most dominant player during an awesome generation
3) Bill Russell - He played 18 years of basketball (NBA/NCAA) and won 14 Championships
4) Kobe - Closest thing we've seen to MJ...has more athleticism than MJ
5) Magic - Best Point Guard of All-Time....and I don't see anyone replacing him anytime soon.

I think he belongs in the argument loosely but the injuries and lack of longevity due to the injuries hurts that argument. Undoubtedly one of the all time greats though.

[QUOTE=HoodaBest2k20;15845317]I may be missing something but who on earth would ever take Bird over Kobe??[/QUOTE]

I think a majority of people would, including myself.

[QUOTE=ayalar09;15845414]1) Jordan - This isn't an argument
2) LBJ - Most dominant player during an awesome generation
3) Bill Russell - He played 18 years of basketball (NBA/NCAA) and won 14 Championships
4) Kobe - Closest thing we've seen to MJ...has more athleticism than MJ
5) Magic - Best Point Guard of All-Time....and I don't see anyone replacing him anytime soon.[/QUOTE]
I'd say that's my top 5 in no order with the exception of Russell. Replace him with Kareem imo

[QUOTE=ayalar09;15845414]
4) Kobe - Closest thing we've seen to MJ...has more athleticism than MJ
[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure how to measure athleticism, but are you sure that this is correct? Young MJ half-convinced people that he could actually fly.

Bird is definitely on the level of James, Kobe and Magic.
watch any of his highlight reels on youtube......We forget how good he was

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz-Dy89W4HM[/url]

Magic and Bird were average defensive players. I'm not necessarily arguing Kobe ahead of either, but he was far superior at guarding folks. Half of the game is on defense. While I realize that rebounding is a defensive asset, I gave way more credit to the guy who can shut down the other team's guy. Never mind the energy required to be an ace on both ends.

Baffled at how many don't understand what Kareem was. Maybe I don't, but I'm pretty sure that I do.

[QUOTE=HoodaBest2k20;15845317]I may be missing something but who on earth would ever take Bird over Kobe??[/QUOTE]

I'm going to guess that the vast majority of people who take Bird over Kobe were the ones who actually were alive during Bird's heyday and saw him play. People talk about Kobe being a killer, Bird was just as much one. His trash talking and competitiveness ranks up there with anyone.

The younger generation I'm confident would all pick Kobe over Bird.

Larry Bird is my favorite Basketball player ever that has no connection to Cleveland

But he isn't on the same level as Jordan, Magic, or LeBron

He'd be in my Top 10 though which is still incredibly good when you consider guys like Wilt, Russell, and Kareem...

[QUOTE=Willikn;15846380]
Baffled at how many don't understand what Kareem was. Maybe I don't, but I'm pretty sure that I do.[/QUOTE]

Kareem's right up there among the most underrated stars in all of NBA history. 6 rings. 6 MVPs. 1st all time in points, 1st all time in win shares, 3rd all time in blocks, 4th all time in rebounds. Hell, he's even 43rd all time in assists, and that's amazing considering he played with high-assist guys like Oscar and Magic for a huge chunk of his career.

He just won't ever get remembered much because he was just pretty boring. He wasn't an athlete of the MJ/Lebron/Kobe type. He didn't have a larger than life personality like Shaq or Wilt. He just did his boring (but unstoppable) sky hook and racked up championships and MVPs. It's a shame, really.

In a game like basketball, a potential GOAT is well-versed on both sides of the ball...sorry Larry

I'm not sure where this narrative is coming from that Bird was a bad defender - where are you guys coming up with this? 3x all defense, 10 of his 13 seasons he was top 20 in defensive win shares, 9 of his 13 seasons he was top 20 in defensive rating... Yea, maybe he wasn't Bill Russell, but his defense is right up there with anyone else, and he's certainly not significantly worse than Kobe (if at all).

Again, I would bet people who think Bird was bad at defense either weren't around or didn't see much of his games. He was a very good defender.

[QUOTE=markinca;15846944]I'm not sure where this narrative is coming from that Bird was a bad defender - where are you guys coming up with this?[/QUOTE]

The term I used was, "average". That is mildly unfair with Larry having three "2nd team all-defense" appearances. He was no Steve Nash to be certain.

Still feel quite comfortable saying that defensively, he and Magic were a rung or two (or three) below what Kobe and Mike were.

Kobe has longevity and recency bias. I don't put Kobe or Bird in the top 5. Stats don't tell you everything but Bird made impactful defensive plays. Adding Iverson's stats since he was a peer of Kobe.

P/R/A/Stl/Blks/FG%/FT%
Bird 24/10/6/1.7/0.8/ .496/ .886
Kobe 25/4/5/1.4/0.2/ .447/ .837
Iverson 26/3/6/2.2/0.2/ .425/.780

[QUOTE=jeromeparot;15844882]100% agree with this entire post :)![/QUOTE]

You sir, are a scholar and a gentleman. :flex:

Put Larry in the same room with MJ, Lebron, Kobe and Magic and see who's the one to walk out alive.

That'd be Larry Bird. Remember, it took a washed up Larry for Michael to FINALLY go on his run.

[QUOTE=SirTommyWinAlot;15847127]Put Larry in the same room with MJ, Lebron, Kobe and Magic and see who's the one to walk out alive.

That'd be Larry Bird. Remember, it took a washed up Larry for Michael to FINALLY go on his run.[/QUOTE]

So how exactly does that work with the Pistons?

[QUOTE=asujbl;15847144]So how exactly does that work with the Pistons?[/QUOTE]

I want to answer that but i'm going on my afternoon run.

Maybe later:D:p

[QUOTE=ayalar09;15845414]1) Jordan - This isn't an argument [B](I agree he's 1, but I think some would argue)[/B]
2) LBJ - Most dominant player during an awesome generation [B](I think he has been a dominant player for the longest period of time in NBA history, but the first part of his career was played against a pretty weak league. But the last 5-7 years you can argue is the deepest the league has ever been with talent.)[/B]
3) Bill Russell - He played 18 years of basketball (NBA/NCAA) and won 14 Championships [B](No argument here)[/B]
4) Kobe - Closest thing we've seen to MJ...has more athleticism than MJ [B](Agree on the first point, but IMO MJ was a superior athlete to Kobe. MJ was a little bigger, a little stronger, could jump a little higher and was a little faster. Those advantages are probably the difference between being the GOAT and being a top 10 player all time. But Kobe was the closest thing we have ever seen and maybe ever will see to being MJ).[/B]
5) Magic - Best Point Guard of All-Time....and I don't see anyone replacing him anytime soon. [B](Yes.) [/B][/QUOTE]

My take on your take.

Any argument against Jordan in the #1 spot has some problems. My opinion isn't one of them. I can't be trusted. I'm biased. Roy Williams? Biased. Charles Barkley? Biased. Who can I trust on the matter?

1. Magic Johnson - The alpha alpha
2. Larry - God disguised as Michael Jordan
3. Bob Knight - The best basketball player I've ever seen

The last one locks it for me. There is no aspect of basketball wherein I don't defer to RMK for knowledge.

Could this still allow for LeBron? Kobe? I guess, but no one else.

Michael Jordan said that he was pushing himself to reach the same levels as Bird and Magic. He did pass both of them without a doubt, but he put Bird and Magic at the pinnacle. That's good enough for me.

[QUOTE=slum22;15844843]I am admittedly a Curry homer. But while I have Larry ahead of Curry in terms of all-time player discussions, I have Curry over Larry as the GOAT pure shooter. There is still time left for him to drop off, but as of now, his 43.5% 3 pt shooting and 90.6% FT shooting for his career ranks number 1 in both categories over all three of the other players you mentioned (Larry, Reggie and Ray). I get the argument that Larry and Reggie would have practiced and shot more threes had they been incentivized to do so, but the fact is Curry's 3 Pt % is higher with a greater volume and a greater degree of difficulty when considering both distance and the fact he does a lot of damage off the bounce (versus Ray and Reggie who were primarily catch and shoot). And they all practiced FT's and Curry is ahead of them all in that too.

ETA: And oh yes, Larry is not the GOAT. Nothing wrong with being a top 5-10 all time lock though. I think after MJ, you can start making legitimate arguments for a lot of people in the 2-8 range.[/QUOTE]


Certainly can't disagree with you. And I don't think there's any real wrong answer. Just tough to compare them directly since the money ball era has completely transformed how players train starting from grade school. But Steph's gifts are unquestionable.

My only nod (which I weigh heavily) for Larry is that he was a stone cold clutch assassin in the Finals, whereas Steph tends to whittle a bit. I'd put Larry and Reggie neck and neck in that respect. Unfortunately for Reggie, none of that mattered because MJ cucked the entire east for over a decade.

That said, Steph's career is far from over and he has what should be many moreopportunities to finally get a Finals mvp.

It's been touched on more so by discussing the training the likes of Curry have today. What I always go back to is that Bird never even played with a 3 point line until his rookie season when it was introduced to the NBA. That and if he would have never broke his knuckle which he claims he was never near the same shooter after are two key things to consider.

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[QUOTE=lseecon;15845587]Bird is definitely on the level of James, Kobe and Magic.
watch any of his highlight reels on youtube......We forget how good he was

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz-Dy89W4HM[/url][/QUOTE]

Great video.

His shot was unstoppable. Dude is draining game winners over Jordan and Pippen, Magic etc

I still have Bird above LeBron due to his ability to close games. All the greats have been able to do it.

Bird had a 3yr run where he was absolute best on the planet and played in the stratosphere..
but he also had a career plagued by injury.

if we're talking about best players in their career, sadly i think Bird drops out of the top 3 discussion. but if we're talking about when they were playing at their peak version, he's most definitely in there.