[QUOTE=Philthy;19247664]Sure, but Eddie would have been cheaper (in 2024) which was my point. Instead of spending the extra money on what are pretty risky assets in my opinion (Sale, Kelenic, Bummer, etc), we could have rolled with Eddie and used that money to go after someone more consistent like Sonny Gray.

AA is a magician so I'm sure they will do everything possible to put Kelenic in a position to succeed.[/QUOTE]

Sale has been pretty consistent during his career, when he's healthy. And AA must feel that that the injury bug the last couple years is over.

I'm looking at Sale and Gray's numbers, and I'm not really seeing much difference to suggest Gray would have been a better option.

Gray is only 222 days younger than Sale. Sale's first start came in 2012, Gray's in 2013. Gray only has 7 more starts than Sale. Sale has about 100 more innings as a starting pitcher though. Even last season, Sale's stat/9 were across the board better than Gray's, outside of hr/9. Sale's WHIP was better.

When you are looking at salaries, are you factoring in that the Red Sox sent $17 million to cover Sale's salary and that he only has a CBT hit of $3M for 2024? Using Spotrac, I'm coming up with a combined CBT salary of around $45M for the 7 players you referenced (Kelenic, Sale, Bummer, Lopez (who will serve a dual role), Jimenez, Marco, Stassi). Compared to $35M for Eddie and Sonny (giving a slight bump over what he signed for. Since you wanted to still keep two of the three relievers, that adds another $15M+ to that side. Final breakdown: $45M for 5 players (actual) vs $50M for 4 players (hypothetical)

I guess I missed the news that Fried and the team avoiding arbitration this year. That's a little encouraging as far as potential contract talks in the future.

[QUOTE=Philthy;19247619]I'm excited to see what this team will do. I like the addition of Kelenic and Sale (especially with Boston paying his whole 2024 salary).

However, I kind of wonder if we'd have been better off not trading for Kelenic and Sale. Then exercising Rosario's option, and not signing one 1 of the 3 relievers (Lopez, Bummer, or Jimenez). That would give us about $50m extra money over the next two years and then put that money towards signing someone like Sonny Gray. We'd also still have Grissom to either try in LF or trade for a reliever.

Kelenic obviously has a way higher upside then Eddie Rosario, but the Braves took on about $15m in contracts to trade for him (after moving Marco and Stassi). I think this move is riskier than some people realize given that Kelenic has had about 2 good months in a couple years in the majors.[/QUOTE]

The Kelenic trade is still a head scratcher to me but I'm hoping that they've seen something in their scouting that made them target him. Sale is equally perplexing to me and is the kind of move that would be absolutely mocked if the Giants or Astros did it. AA and the Braves seem to be able to do no wrong so they are getting the benefit of the doubt on it. In a vacuum though, I'd rather have one reliable pitcher that could throw 150 innings with a 4.00 ERA than both of these guys combined. It could just be that none of those were available (far fewer of them than one might think) for an affordable price, but who knows. I'd love to see what other offers got turned down.

[QUOTE=whitmm;19247737]Sale has been pretty consistent during his career, when he's healthy. And AA must feel that that the injury bug the last couple years is over.

I'm looking at Sale and Gray's numbers, and I'm not really seeing much difference to suggest Gray would have been a better option.

Gray is only 222 days younger than Sale. Sale's first start came in 2012, Gray's in 2013. Gray only has 7 more starts than Sale. Sale has about 100 more innings as a starting pitcher though. Even last season, Sale's stat/9 were across the board better than Gray's, outside of hr/9. Sale's WHIP was better.

When you are looking at salaries, are you factoring in that the Red Sox sent $17 million to cover Sale's salary and that he only has a CBT hit of $3M for 2024? Using Spotrac, I'm coming up with a combined CBT salary of around $45M for the 7 players you referenced (Kelenic, Sale, Bummer, Lopez (who will serve a dual role), Jimenez, Marco, Stassi). Compared to $35M for Eddie and Sonny (giving a slight bump over what he signed for. Since you wanted to still keep two of the three relievers, that adds another $15M+ to that side. Final breakdown: $45M for 5 players (actual) vs $50M for 4 players (hypothetical)[/QUOTE]

If you are comparing their careers, then I would agree. If you compare the last 3 seasons (which should be weighted more heavily IMO) then Gray has made 82 starts versus only 31 for Sale. Thats a pretty large discreapncy on how reliable they have been the most recent seasons.

Yea, I was averaging out the salaries over the next two seasons since the Red Sox are covering all of Sale's salary this year but we are on the hook for $22m next year with him. Your math looks pretty accurate to me.

[QUOTE=Philthy;19247842]If you are comparing their careers, then I would agree. If you compare the last 3 seasons (which should be weighted more heavily IMO) then Gray has made 82 starts versus only 31 for Sale. Thats a pretty large discreapncy on how reliable they have been the most recent seasons.

Yea, I was averaging out the salaries over the next two seasons since the Red Sox are covering all of Sale's salary this year but we are on the hook for $22m next year with him. Your math looks pretty accurate to me.[/QUOTE]

Gray would have cost more over the two years than Sale. Eddie was one year and then you need to pay someone next year. The bullpen needed the major overhaul. Marco and Stassi's dead money is gone and frees up the money for Sale's contract.

AA and the Braves have a much better idea of the health status of Chris Sale than the fans. They obviously feel the shoulder is ready to go.

I don't agree with saying the most recent 3 year window should carry more weight than a career worth of history. Especially when that 3 year window just happens to contain a major injury for one of them. Personally, what happened 3 years ago carries the same weight as something that happened 10 years ago. That's just how fickle things are. Sometimes players have fluke years (Kyle Wright for example). There are numerous pitchers who have shown up and had a couple great seasons in a row and then done nothing.

To touch on jduds comment about wanting a pitcher who could give 150 innings over Sale and Kelenic, Sonny Gray isn't that guy, based off your idea that the last three years should be weighed more heavily. Gray only cracked that number once in the last three years. I don't know, it might just be me not being sold on a guy who has only received Cy Young votes three times in 12 years and only gone over 150 innings three times since 2016.

Yea, I don't think what happened 10 years ago should carry close to the same weight as whats happened more recently in terms to injuries. We can agree to disagree there. As far as LF, in my scenario we would still have Vaughn Grissom to either play in LF or trade for a LF/bullpen option. I certainly appreciate the discourse!

AA is very good at what he does so far be it from me to be overly critical. We will see how it shakes out.

[QUOTE=Philthy;19247973]Yea, I don't think what happened 10 years ago should carry close to the same weight as whats happened more recently in terms to injuries. We can agree to disagree there. As far as LF, in my scenario we would still have Vaughn Grissom to either play in LF or trade for a LF/bullpen option. I certainly appreciate the discourse!

AA is very good at what he does so far be it from me to be overly critical. We will see how it shakes out.[/QUOTE]

And I'm just pointing out that Sale's are all TJ related. I'd take the new deal as a signal that the team feels that he should be good to go from them. I guess I just don't see any upside to Gray vs Sale, career or recently. Gray is still a guy that, while he's giving you starts, is not going deep in games, taxing the bullpen. And he's had his share of minor injuries. Less than 150 innings two of the last three years while making 24+ starts each year isn't that promising either.

Anyone surprised by this? Lol.

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Rabs, not at all. I'm curious on how many of them were on curve balls that bounced off the batter's back foot. Because that seems like what always happens

[QUOTE=whitmm;19248845]Rabs, not at all. I'm curious on how many of them were on curve balls that bounced off the batter's back foot. Because that seems like what always happens[/QUOTE]

Oh yeah I'm sure it's mainly curves. He does have crazy break on that pitch but when he doesn't have a feel for it things get ugly quick.

I hope his control is better in 2024.

[QUOTE=Rabs;19248850]Oh yeah I'm sure it's mainly curves. He does have crazy break on that pitch but when he doesn't have a feel for it things get ugly quick.

I hope his control is better in 2024.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely. Only trailed CYA winner Blake Snell in walks last season.

AA extension signed. In AA we trust


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In kind of team related news, Jim Powell is not returning to the radio booth for the 2024 season.

Reynaldo Lopez signing could end up being a huge deal for the Braves. Let's not assume he's just a bullpen piece.

[QUOTE=thenightman;19233654]This is a division winning team. Anything after that is a crapshoot[/QUOTE]

This is baseball. Perfect answer.

Create the best team you can to get to the playoffs and hope you’re hot, healthy and lucky at that point

[QUOTE=CP10;19273598]Reynaldo Lopez signing could end up being a huge deal for the Braves. Let's not assume he's just a bullpen piece.[/QUOTE]

Didn't they already say they plan to stretch him out?

[QUOTE=Rabs;19273821]Didn't they already say they plan to stretch him out?[/QUOTE]

Yup. The plan is to have him ready to be a starter when they report to camp.

[QUOTE=whitmm;19272304]In kind of team related news, Jim Powell is not returning to the radio booth for the 2024 season.[/QUOTE]

Dang that’s a bummer. It sounds like it was not his decision. He was really good.

[QUOTE=BraveAtlanta;19273985]Dang that’s a bummer. It sounds like it was not his decision. He was really good.[/QUOTE]

Never really listened to the radio broadcasts, but everyone seemed to love him.

Also see Frenchy is going to have a much smaller commitment to games, wonder if his national broadcast schedule is increasing.

Personally, I'm hoping Paul Byrd comes back after taking last season off.

[QUOTE=whitmm;19274061]Never really listened to the radio broadcasts, but everyone seemed to love him.

Also see Frenchy is going to have a much smaller commitment to games, wonder if his national broadcast schedule is increasing.

Personally, I'm hoping Paul Byrd comes back after taking last season off.[/QUOTE]

Lol yeah I like Byrd too. Funny dude

[QUOTE=jduds;19247813]The Kelenic trade is still a head scratcher to me but I'm hoping that they've seen something in their scouting that made them target him. Sale is equally perplexing to me and is the kind of move that would be absolutely mocked if the Giants or Astros did it. AA and the Braves seem to be able to do no wrong so they are getting the benefit of the doubt on it. In a vacuum though, I'd rather have one reliable pitcher that could throw 150 innings with a 4.00 ERA than both of these guys combined. It could just be that none of those were available (far fewer of them than one might think) for an affordable price, but who knows. I'd love to see what other offers got turned down.[/QUOTE]

I'm optimistic that Kelenic is just one of those top prospects that takes a little time to show their potential in the majors. He showed major improvement last year.

duplicate

[QUOTE=whitmm;19272304]In kind of team related news, Jim Powell is not returning to the radio booth for the 2024 season.[/QUOTE]

This is a bummer. Spent many summer days listening to him call games while out in my yard.

AA gave a nice cryptic comment during an interview the other day. He mentioned that he's not interested in winning with jerks. Then he said they backed out of a trade at the deadline because one of the guys in the clubhouse had played with him and didn't like him.

I can't wait to find out who it was.

[QUOTE=christhecpa;19274251]I'm optimistic that Kelenic is just one of those top prospects that takes a little time to show their potential in the majors. He showed major improvement last year.[/QUOTE]

I think both him and Harris go 25/25 this season.