[QUOTE=ReggieBush22;18323097]Wasn't there some issue with Star printing their cards AFTER the stated years on the back of the cards and this was one of the reasons none of the major companies graded them for years? Anything with questionable stuff like this, I get leary. But once it's in a PSA holder, most won't care. This will definitely help out Star values going forward.[/QUOTE]

NOT reprinted old product, but [B]they produced new issues and "back dated" them[/B]. These fake sets have all been identified and are summarily rejected by the hobby. No evidence that the original cards were remade by Star.

Accurate hobby info found here:
[url]https://starbasketballcards.com/category/star-authentication-guides/[/url]

[QUOTE=Spfld Ponies;18323140]NOT reprinted old product, but [B]they produced new issues and "back dated" them[/B]. These fake sets have all been identified and are summarily rejected by the hobby. No evidence that the original cards were remade by Star.

Accurate hobby info found here:
[url]https://starbasketballcards.com/category/star-authentication-guides/[/url][/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's what I meant. I'm just not cool with iffy situations like this, especially if we are talking about investing $$ into this. What happens if the pop for these cards EXCEED 5,000? LOL. Then you will KNOW fakes were graded. That's when prices plummet. Too risky for me.

FYI, I used to have the Jordan BGS 6.5 way back in the days. Sold it for like $1,500. Also sold all of my other Stars for the reason stated above. I'd rather put my $$ on something else.

[QUOTE=ReggieBush22;18323161]Yeah, that's what I meant. I'm just not cool with iffy situations like this, especially if we are talking about investing $$ into this. What happens if the pop for these cards EXCEED 5,000? LOL. Then you will KNOW fakes were graded. That's when prices plummet. Too risky for me.

FYI, I used to have the Jordan BGS 6.5 way back in the days. Sold it for like $1,500. Also sold all of my other Stars for the reason stated above. I'd rather put my $$ on something else.[/QUOTE]

You do you, of course, and I mean this in the most friendly way, but I don't follow your logic. No one knows the exact pop printed, so the population exceeding some arbitrary number proves nothing about the existence of graded fakes. We do know that the pop is massively lower than the 1986 Fleer pop. We also know that fake Fleer 57s have been graded, and that prices on 1986 Fleer and 99% of vintage basketball have been dropping while prices on Star have been rising. Too bad you don't still have your 6.5, or you'd be up 10x.

[QUOTE=Spfld Ponies;18322944]To be fair, PSA evidently did not feel the need to pay Steve for his consulting services. A very knowledgable dealer for sure, but anything worth knowing about these cards already exists. The fact that Taft is not involved (and he is certainly a respectable guy) doesn't bother me.

Star cards are well established, unquestionably. My bigger concern by a mile is: [B]how will the cards be graded[/B]? How will centering be handled? Will sheet cut / odd sized cards be graded or just authenticated? Will the reject cards in the Schonco collection be graded or authenticated (error cards, pulled cards like Barkley Gatorade, etc)?[/QUOTE]

im very familiar with Star Co,I bought all mine when first released from the east coast master dealer.I am in no way concerned about what you or i know,what everyone should be concerned about is what PSA knows.

Lets be honest,PSA didn't do so great the last time they tried grading star.i do agree its not that hard to do.Know the difference in type 2's,don't grade anything from the Shop at home sale,understand the cuts from each of the 2 printing shops used,color bleed yada yada.Point is if PSA really knew anything about Star they would not be limiting it to just 84/85.

The fact that Steve took the time to post about it gives me the impression he has reservations as well,maybe im wrong on that and he was just innocently answering a random question.Maybe the whole thing works out great for PSA and whoever subs,it just brings up questions,why would PSA not take Steve's training?it cant be cost,it would give PSA instant credibility with Star Collectors its an easy win.They do the packs with Steve Hart,it would be the same thing.it just makes sense.

Well, SGC grades TOPPS MM cards from the 1950's,

Do they grade STAR MJ cards from the 1980's??


SGC does NOT grade STAR BK.

[QUOTE=Gary;18322781]If Steve posted that he is already distancing himself from this,That's good enough for me to pass on PSA.[/QUOTE]

The idea that he is “distancing” himself from it, or hasn’t helped at all is just wrong. Just read his post. They wanted his help, his health problems stopped him from physically going to train. Many phone calls, praises PSA employees, not hard to spot bad ones, important part of history having PSA grade… my goodness JUST READ.

“ I've been overwhelmed with questions about the PSA / Star Co. Basketball grading situation the last couple days. I'll try to clarify some things for everyone.

The most asked question is did I train PSA? As of now, that's more of a "no" than a "yes". I have been in discussions with PSA management for over a year about doing this, and, the verbal plan was that I would meet with grader's and do an authentication training session. As some of you may know, I've had some health issues and had to keep delaying officially getting this set up.....

While we had many phone calls and emails discussing some of the basic issues, I still have not signed a consulting deal to officially proceed with them. Ultimately, PSA decided to go ahead and work on this on their own, and well they should since I've had to delay for about a year. I guess you could say I helped point them in the right direction to get started, but, credit goes to Brendan at PSA for leading the research so that they will be taking submissions for 1984-85 Star NBA in a couple / few weeks.

As to the present and future, I finally have a diagnosis of severe sleep apnea and am waiting for insurance and referrals to get the CPAP machine. This, hopefully, means I'll start working more and return to somewhat normal health status within a couple / few weeks.

My understanding is PSA is still working on their knowledge base for the other Star Co. sets, and, they may consider having me help with this phase, most notably the 1985-86 Star Type II's.

As you would expect, PSA asked me not to comment until after they made the initial announcement. Since that has now been done, I wanted to clarify what I did and didn't do the past year as this process played out. I was told a couple times the rumor was I led this process, and, while I had discussions about Star Co. in general, Brendan and his team at PSA have been working hard on this for a while.

As of today, I have not seen submission rules and costs. News on this will likely be released before the National since PSA has said they will begin taking submissions at the National (with the cards returning to PSA's office for grading). ie. They will not grade Star Co. "on site" at the Atlantic City National. I will post an update when important information is released.

As to the comments and questions about, "too hard to tell the difference between original and counterfeit Star Co. cards?". Most of the counterfeits are very easy to spot. There are a couple that someone with some knowledge might need a little extra time to catch. The Type II's contain some very simple to spot key signs, and, there are some where you need very specific knowledge. I would expect PSA's grader's would pick up this knowledge reasonably quick once they see the differences.

It's an important step in the history of Star Co. Basketball as we're finally going to see PSA join BGS in offering to grade and authenticate these cards from NBA Basketball's Greatest Era.”

The registry alone will feed demand.
Not to mention the "gap year" cards of Bird, Magic, Kareem, Dr. J, etc. as well as the rookies.
Still, a great time to sell them, not buy them. After all, they are "HOTTT" with three t's even if they're not quite flame emoji territory.

[QUOTE=mm3030;18327527]The idea that he is “distancing” himself from it, or hasn’t helped at all is just wrong. Just read his post. They wanted his help, his health problems stopped him from physically going to train. Many phone calls, praises PSA employees, not hard to spot bad ones, important part of history having PSA grade… my goodness JUST READ.

“ I've been overwhelmed with questions about the PSA / Star Co. Basketball grading situation the last couple days. I'll try to clarify some things for everyone.

The most asked question is did I train PSA? As of now, that's more of a "no" than a "yes". I have been in discussions with PSA management for over a year about doing this, and, the verbal plan was that I would meet with grader's and do an authentication training session. As some of you may know, I've had some health issues and had to keep delaying officially getting this set up.....

While we had many phone calls and emails discussing some of the basic issues, I still have not signed a consulting deal to officially proceed with them. Ultimately, PSA decided to go ahead and work on this on their own, and well they should since I've had to delay for about a year. I guess you could say I helped point them in the right direction to get started, but, credit goes to Brendan at PSA for leading the research so that they will be taking submissions for 1984-85 Star NBA in a couple / few weeks.

As to the present and future, I finally have a diagnosis of severe sleep apnea and am waiting for insurance and referrals to get the CPAP machine. This, hopefully, means I'll start working more and return to somewhat normal health status within a couple / few weeks.

My understanding is PSA is still working on their knowledge base for the other Star Co. sets, and, they may consider having me help with this phase, most notably the 1985-86 Star Type II's.

As you would expect, PSA asked me not to comment until after they made the initial announcement. Since that has now been done, I wanted to clarify what I did and didn't do the past year as this process played out. I was told a couple times the rumor was I led this process, and, while I had discussions about Star Co. in general, Brendan and his team at PSA have been working hard on this for a while.

As of today, I have not seen submission rules and costs. News on this will likely be released before the National since PSA has said they will begin taking submissions at the National (with the cards returning to PSA's office for grading). ie. They will not grade Star Co. "on site" at the Atlantic City National. I will post an update when important information is released.

As to the comments and questions about, "too hard to tell the difference between original and counterfeit Star Co. cards?". Most of the counterfeits are very easy to spot. There are a couple that someone with some knowledge might need a little extra time to catch. The Type II's contain some very simple to spot key signs, and, there are some where you need very specific knowledge. I would expect PSA's grader's would pick up this knowledge reasonably quick once they see the differences.

It's an important step in the history of Star Co. Basketball as we're finally going to see PSA join BGS in offering to grade and authenticate these cards from NBA Basketball's Greatest Era.”[/QUOTE]


None of that changes PSA has not been trained,what you posted confirms it,the fact that they wanted Steve,and Steve wanted to help is great.Maybe PSA should have put it off until the training could happen.

Thanks
 

Thanks for posting this information. I had not seen it.

[QUOTE=mm3030;18327527]The idea that he is “distancing” himself from it, or hasn’t helped at all is just wrong. Just read his post. They wanted his help, his health problems stopped him from physically going to train. Many phone calls, praises PSA employees, not hard to spot bad ones, important part of history having PSA grade… my goodness JUST READ.

“ I've been overwhelmed with questions about the PSA / Star Co. Basketball grading situation the last couple days. I'll try to clarify some things for everyone.

The most asked question is did I train PSA? As of now, that's more of a "no" than a "yes". I have been in discussions with PSA management for over a year about doing this, and, the verbal plan was that I would meet with grader's and do an authentication training session. As some of you may know, I've had some health issues and had to keep delaying officially getting this set up.....

While we had many phone calls and emails discussing some of the basic issues, I still have not signed a consulting deal to officially proceed with them. Ultimately, PSA decided to go ahead and work on this on their own, and well they should since I've had to delay for about a year. I guess you could say I helped point them in the right direction to get started, but, credit goes to Brendan at PSA for leading the research so that they will be taking submissions for 1984-85 Star NBA in a couple / few weeks.

As to the present and future, I finally have a diagnosis of severe sleep apnea and am waiting for insurance and referrals to get the CPAP machine. This, hopefully, means I'll start working more and return to somewhat normal health status within a couple / few weeks.

My understanding is PSA is still working on their knowledge base for the other Star Co. sets, and, they may consider having me help with this phase, most notably the 1985-86 Star Type II's.

As you would expect, PSA asked me not to comment until after they made the initial announcement. Since that has now been done, I wanted to clarify what I did and didn't do the past year as this process played out. I was told a couple times the rumor was I led this process, and, while I had discussions about Star Co. in general, Brendan and his team at PSA have been working hard on this for a while.

As of today, I have not seen submission rules and costs. News on this will likely be released before the National since PSA has said they will begin taking submissions at the National (with the cards returning to PSA's office for grading). ie. They will not grade Star Co. "on site" at the Atlantic City National. I will post an update when important information is released.

As to the comments and questions about, "too hard to tell the difference between original and counterfeit Star Co. cards?". Most of the counterfeits are very easy to spot. There are a couple that someone with some knowledge might need a little extra time to catch. The Type II's contain some very simple to spot key signs, and, there are some where you need very specific knowledge. I would expect PSA's grader's would pick up this knowledge reasonably quick once they see the differences.

It's an important step in the history of Star Co. Basketball as we're finally going to see PSA join BGS in offering to grade and authenticate these cards from NBA Basketball's Greatest Era.”[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Gary;18323760]im very familiar with Star Co,I bought all mine when first released from the east coast master dealer.I am in no way concerned about what you or i know,what everyone should be concerned about is what PSA knows.

Lets be honest,PSA didn't do so great the last time they tried grading star.i do agree its not that hard to do.Know the difference in type 2's,don't grade anything from the Shop at home sale,understand the cuts from each of the 2 printing shops used,color bleed yada yada.Point is if PSA really knew anything about Star they would not be limiting it to just 84/85.

The fact that Steve took the time to post about it gives me the impression he has reservations as well,maybe im wrong on that and he was just innocently answering a random question.Maybe the whole thing works out great for PSA and whoever subs,it just brings up questions,why would PSA not take Steve's training?it cant be cost,it would give PSA instant credibility with Star Collectors its an easy win.They do the packs with Steve Hart,it would be the same thing.it just makes sense.[/QUOTE]

Hey Gary, you make some nice points, thanks for posting. I too hope PSA does their research on the product so that consumer confidence can build.

[QUOTE=hauntedcomputer;18327584]The registry alone will feed demand.
Not to mention the "gap year" cards of Bird, Magic, Kareem, Dr. J, etc. as well as the rookies.
Still, a great time to sell them, not buy them. After all, they are "HOTTT" with three t's even if they're not quite flame emoji territory.[/QUOTE]

LOL well said! Although I do see a small buying opportunity.:doh:

[QUOTE=Spfld Ponies;18321073]Sounds like a pump job and it may be[/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://c.tenor.com/fWHm7ew5okEAAAAM/no-way-never.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=mm3030;18327527]The idea that he is “distancing” himself from it, or hasn’t helped at all is just wrong. Just read his post. They wanted his help, his health problems stopped him from physically going to train. Many phone calls, praises PSA employees, not hard to spot bad ones, important part of history having PSA grade… my goodness JUST READ.

“ I've been overwhelmed with questions about the PSA / Star Co. Basketball grading situation the last couple days. I'll try to clarify some things for everyone.

The most asked question is did I train PSA? As of now, that's more of a "no" than a "yes". I have been in discussions with PSA management for over a year about doing this, and, the verbal plan was that I would meet with grader's and do an authentication training session. As some of you may know, I've had some health issues and had to keep delaying officially getting this set up.....

While we had many phone calls and emails discussing some of the basic issues, I still have not signed a consulting deal to officially proceed with them. Ultimately, PSA decided to go ahead and work on this on their own, and well they should since I've had to delay for about a year. I guess you could say I helped point them in the right direction to get started, but, credit goes to Brendan at PSA for leading the research so that they will be taking submissions for 1984-85 Star NBA in a couple / few weeks.

As to the present and future, I finally have a diagnosis of severe sleep apnea and am waiting for insurance and referrals to get the CPAP machine. This, hopefully, means I'll start working more and return to somewhat normal health status within a couple / few weeks.

My understanding is PSA is still working on their knowledge base for the other Star Co. sets, and, they may consider having me help with this phase, most notably the 1985-86 Star Type II's.

As you would expect, PSA asked me not to comment until after they made the initial announcement. Since that has now been done, I wanted to clarify what I did and didn't do the past year as this process played out. I was told a couple times the rumor was I led this process, and, while I had discussions about Star Co. in general, Brendan and his team at PSA have been working hard on this for a while.

As of today, I have not seen submission rules and costs. News on this will likely be released before the National since PSA has said they will begin taking submissions at the National (with the cards returning to PSA's office for grading). ie. They will not grade Star Co. "on site" at the Atlantic City National. I will post an update when important information is released.

As to the comments and questions about, "too hard to tell the difference between original and counterfeit Star Co. cards?". Most of the counterfeits are very easy to spot. There are a couple that someone with some knowledge might need a little extra time to catch. The Type II's contain some very simple to spot key signs, and, there are some where you need very specific knowledge. I would expect PSA's grader's would pick up this knowledge reasonably quick once they see the differences.

It's an important step in the history of Star Co. Basketball as we're finally going to see PSA join BGS in offering to grade and authenticate these cards from NBA Basketball's Greatest Era.”[/QUOTE]

But Steve did admit he didn't train them. So PSA is going at it without the help of the main Star guy.

Also, reading up, looks like PSA is ONLY grading 1984-85 Star and no other years. Maybe this is the year where Star didn't reproduce sets later on? Or something else? That alone makes it weird. As it stands, I'm not spending a penny on these Star cards. Too risky for me.

[QUOTE=ReggieBush22;18329457]But Steve did admit he didn't train them. So PSA is going at it without the help of the main Star guy.

Also, reading up, looks like PSA is ONLY grading 1984-85 Star and no other years. [B]Maybe this is the year where Star didn't reproduce sets later on? [/B] Or something else? That alone makes it weird. As it stands, I'm not spending a penny on these Star cards. Too risky for me.[/QUOTE]

So Star reprinted the 84-85 Jordan and other cards from that year? Or is that just wild speculation?

Post #26 already addressed your wrong assumptions.

[QUOTE=mc1;18329465]So Star reprinted the 84-85 Jordan and other cards from that year? Or is that just wild speculation?[/QUOTE]

I have no idea. But there is a REASON why SGC never graded these, BGS stopped and PSA just started grading them now but are limiting just to only 1984-85. What we do know is Star reproduced their cards and back dated them. That we do know. That's a serious issue LOL as the actual manufacturer reproduced their own products and back dated them. So quality control isn't an issue with other fakes. But besides that, I don't know nothing. I'm sure there are plenty of people who can enlighten us.

LOL

Reading up a bit, there is the Type II counterfeit where a former Star employee stole sheets that were slated to be destroyed, mostly from the 1985-86 Star set.

Then Robert Levin, the former owner of Star, produced a bunch of Star cards, back dated them and tried to sell them on Shop at Home.

No thanks, I'm staying away.

[QUOTE=ReggieBush22;18329475]I have no idea. But there is a REASON why SGC never graded these, BGS stopped and PSA just started grading them now but are limiting just to only 1984-85. What we do know is Star reproduced their cards and back dated them. That we do know. That's a serious issue LOL as the actual manufacturer reproduced their own products and back dated them. So quality control isn't an issue with other fakes. But besides that, I don't know nothing. I'm sure there are plenty of people who can enlighten us.[/QUOTE]

Star did not reproduce the original products. The owner created new sets that do not look like the original sets. These had 1985 copyright dates but were actually printed without NBA authorization in the 90s and then sold through Shop at Home.

Star never reproduced the 1984-85 set that PSA is currently grading. There might be counterfeits but those are very obvious with just clear photos.

BGS did not stop. BGS is still grading Star cards.

As usual a bunch of BS speculation and info spewed on the inter webs. The info is out there and not a mystery. Don’t spew crap!!!

[QUOTE=ReggieBush22;18329499]LOL

Reading up a bit, there is the Type II counterfeit where a former Star employee stole sheets that were slated to be destroyed, mostly from the 1985-86 Star set.

Then Robert Levin, the former owner of Star, produced a bunch of Star cards, back dated them and tried to sell them on Shop at Home.

No thanks, I'm staying away.[/QUOTE]

Bro quit making excuses for not getting MJ’s only true rookie card. Save up,work harder you will be able afford one down the road. Prices keep going up by the day though.

Reggie we understand you’re gonna stay away. We get it. That’s your decision. But a lot of the stuff you are saying is flat out wrong so please stop.

Bgs didn’t quit

And for example the shop at home scandal had things like bulls arena with a Jordan which didn’t exist in the original run. It wasn’t new 101 bags or new found quantities of original cards.

To put it another way it would be like if I ran skybox and said ahhh here are the red and green pmg baseball cards we were gonna put out and didn’t. And then sold them on shop at home as original.

They never existed. See what I mean.

[QUOTE=ReggieBush22;18329457]But Steve did admit he didn't train them. So PSA is going at it without the help of the main Star guy.

Also, reading up, looks like PSA is ONLY grading 1984-85 Star and no other years. [B]Maybe this is the year where Star didn't reproduce sets later on? Or something else?[/B] That alone makes it weird. As it stands, I'm not spending a penny on these Star cards. Too risky for me.[/QUOTE]

:doh::doh::doh:

Information on Star cards is readily available to a willing reader.

As to people freaking out that Steve Taft didn't significantly assist PSA's card graders, it's not like he's some omniscient being and the rest of the world's population are knuckle-dragging neanderthals when it comes to identifying the authenticity of Star cards. Many people know how to authenticate a Star card. Let's pump the breaks on the idea that it's like deciphering the Rosetta Stone or something.

PSA 8 at the National just sold for 100k! Wow!

Yup, I stand corrected guys.

Type II counterfeits seemed to involve series 2 of 1985-86, the 10 card MJ set and Best of the New.

And the Shop at Home were new sets, albeit some same sets from the past but with different colors/borders.

Still risky for me though.

Yup, I stand corrected guys.

Type II counterfeits seemed to involve series 2 of 1985-86, the 10 card MJ set and Best of the New.

And the Shop at Home were new sets, albeit some same sets from the past but with different colors/borders.

Still risky for me though.

[QUOTE=Hellcat;18329736]Bro quit making excuses for not getting MJ’s only true rookie card. Save up,work harder you will be able afford one down the road. Prices keep going up by the day though.[/QUOTE]

FYI, I can afford one buddy. I just choose not to buy one.