[QUOTE=reddragonthe;17298080]Topps isn't going to start replacing these surface issues. It makes zero sense for them to do so. And zero cents. Imagine if they did. You think PSA got a lot of mail?

"Hey - if you have any cards with surface issues, send them to us - we'll find one that's got a 10 surface and send it back to you." - Future Former Topps Marketing employee

Where do these replacements come from? Custom print jobs? Custom print jobs that somehow avoid the same fate as the ones we have? Cards they held back... that went through the same process that created our endemic situation of surface issues?

We want pristine because pristine is valuable. Pristine is valuable because of manufactured scarcity/desire that we've created as not all are Pristine. Not all are pristine because (stuff) happens.[/QUOTE]

I get the gist of what you are saying, but you're kind of taking this to an extreme. No one I've seen complaining about the condition is saying they expect pristine cards. But where do you draw the line of what is acceptable in the other direction when you pay $200+ for a box of cards?

I've gotten loose packs at the LCS and they don't have the same kind of issues that the cards I pulled had, so I assume Topps does have a supply held back that are in better condition than the ones I purchased.

So bottom line for me personally is, yes I would love pristine, but that's not the expectation going in nor should it be. Having said that, there has to be a baseline level of acceptable quality and scratches on a majority of cards sold box-fresh shouldn't be it.

Hey - I hope you all send in your chrome cards with scratches and get a version back with less scratches. I don't get paid some commission by Topps for every replacement that gets avoided by my advocacy here on the internet. I have no dog in the fight. There are just a lot of new folks collecting and I think the last 18 months have given us a very warped sense of entitlement and valuation of these shiny pictures of young men on cardboard.

I also think it's incredibly ironic that we think the company that we are miffed sends out thousands of boxes of cards with obvious scratches on them is the same company that can also identify the ones without scratches, hold them back, and if we ask nicely enough send us those versions as exact replacements for ours.

Manufacturing defects? Sure. And we all want these to be considered that. But I HIGHLY doubt typical surface scratches are going to hit that mark for Topps.

[QUOTE=bulljh;17296541]Sorry, I’m not paying $25 to get a 3 or 4 dollar card graded so it then could be $20. What do you think PSA and Beckett are in the mess they are in? It’s because people keep sending low dollar base cards to get graded.[/QUOTE]

Thank goodness there are still some people in this hobby with common sense. This is spot on. Too many people do the above.

If it's a $100 or more i could see sending it back but if it's 20-50 then why bother? I think they get scratched when they get packed up. You have to think they put chrome on chrome in these packs they are bound to get scratched being packed on each other.

Maybe this has been asked and answered, is yoelqui just an auto in this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It’ll probably go quick but blasters are live on target.

[QUOTE=elp11;17301274]It’ll probably go quick but blasters are live on target.[/QUOTE]

Was on 4 minutes after this and all sold out.

Mega's live

grabbed 3 blasters... megas stuck in cart :(

The addiction is real

Gosh, this has to be the most unlucky Bowman I've opened in 10 years. Usually buy 3 jumbos/year and hit a couple of chrome 1sts for each of the big prospects and some decent autos.

3 jumbos this year and 0 Martin chrome, 0 Jordan chrome, 0 Acosta chrome, 1 Alcantara chrome. Wish I was kidding. Salt in the wound is the last box I opened only had 2 autos, so of the 8 autos I got, 7 were pitchers. I'm not holding my breath that Topps will send a decent "missing hit", but maybe my luck will turn!

However I do take comfort in knowing that out there somewhere, someone hopefully either got an extra auto or is having the box of their life.

Better luck next year!

Is the Bowman thread really back on page 3???

Value boxes up on Topps website.
$30box, but I guess it's still cheaper than eBay.
10 box limit per customer.

[url]https://www.topps.com/cards-collectibles/2021-toppsr-bowman-baseball-value-box.html[/url]

Question for the group and any thoughts or answers are appreciated.

I recently bought "all paper" from a dual 2021 Bowman Case Break. One case of regular hobby and another of Jumbo for a total of 20 boxes (12 hobby, 8 Jumbo).

The listing clearly says that all base paper ships.

How many of each Prospect, Prospect 1st Bowman, and Rookie cards would you expect to receive?

Before I post the averages that I have counted I'd like to hear the group's thoughts so that I don't introduce any bias here.

Again, thanks for any input

[QUOTE=mgiunta03;17314253]Question for the group and any thoughts or answers are appreciated.

I recently bought "all paper" from a dual 2021 Bowman Case Break. One case of regular hobby and another of Jumbo for a total of 20 boxes (12 hobby, 8 Jumbo).

The listing clearly says that all base paper ships.

How many of each Prospect, Prospect 1st Bowman, and Rookie cards would you expect to receive?

Before I post the averages that I have counted I'd like to hear the group's thoughts so that I don't introduce any bias here.

Again, thanks for any input[/QUOTE]

Something like 13-16 of each paper for 1 Hobby/1 Jumbo case, I think is what the math says? But that's if all paper has equal weight-- I just don't know if there's weight to the base checklist vs prospect CL per pack -- just that the prospect set CL is bigger.

So if there's an equal number of base (& RC) set & prospect set per pack, you're going to end up with much more base (& RC) total.

That's what I thought as well

I didn't get more than 7 of any prospect and some of these numbers for 1st Bowmans are just horrendous.

Only got 3 Acosta's, 3 Adinso Reyes's, 4 Blaze Jordan's and those are the worst of the batch. Otherwise the rest were between 4-7 of each.

Haven't gotten in to the numbers on the other prospects (non 1st Bowman's) or the Rookies or vets yet but that will be my project this evening followed up with a note to the Seller.

I will refrain from posting his ebay username at this time as I am hopeful he just made a mistake and will do right by me

[QUOTE=mgiunta03;17314253]Question for the group and any thoughts or answers are appreciated.

I recently bought "all paper" from a dual 2021 Bowman Case Break. One case of regular hobby and another of Jumbo for a total of 20 boxes (12 hobby, 8 Jumbo).

The listing clearly says that all base paper ships.

How many of each Prospect, Prospect 1st Bowman, and Rookie cards would you expect to receive?

Before I post the averages that I have counted I'd like to hear the group's thoughts so that I don't introduce any bias here.

Again, thanks for any input[/QUOTE]

My results from base paper in 1 Hobby case. Perfect collation on the vet/rookies (1-100), just short of 12 full sets. The prospect set (BP1-150) collation was all over. I had 2 full sets and was probably 20 cards short of a 3rd. Had up to 10 of some players.

Thank you dubs and marterburn, appreciate your input

Contacted the seller and this is what he came back with. I am copying and pasting his reply to my message as well as the original listing. Am I wrong in thinking that this is one of the most intentionally deceptive and mis-leading auction descriptions? Do I have a right to be as pissed about this as I am? I have never seen a multiple case break where "all paper base" wasn't for the entire break but rather divided into two different lots. But again, I could be in the wrong on that.

Additionally he included 5 Color/#'d cards that he sent to me as well. So not only do I feel that this was an intentional deception (but this is open to interpretation I understand) but he's sloppy to boot.

His message back to me:

You received ALL the hobby paper from 12 boxes/1 case. The description of the break states that this listing was for all hobby case paper and there was a seperate auction for the jumbo case paper. I did the hobby break first and all of the base paper from that break was put away before the next break and labeled hobby. All base paper cards were shipped out.

The original Headline of the Auction and the seller's description:

ALL “HOBBY CASE” BASE PAPER 2021 Bowman Jumbo + Hobby 20x Dual Case PLAYER BREAK

2021 BOWMAN BASEBALL JUMBO +HOBBY DUAL CASE PLAYER BREAK TOTAL OF 20 BOXES (12 HOBBY+ 8 JUMBO)

THIS LISTING FOR ALL THE UNSORTED "HOBBY CASE" BASE PAPER FROM THE BREAK. THERE IS NO CHROME OR COLOR/#D IN THIS.



NO REFUNDS OR CANCELLATIONS FOR FAILURE TO READ DESCRIPTION- PLEASE MESSAGE ME FOR ANY QUESTIONS

When:

This break will take place on THE DAY AUCTION ENDS AT 10 PM CST






IF YOU WIN MULTIPLE AUCTIONS PLEASE WAIT UNTIL INVOICE IS SENT TO COMBINE SHIPPING. ANY ORDERS WITH EXTRA PAID SHIPPING WILL NOT BE REFUNDED!!!!

[QUOTE=mgiunta03;17315452]Contacted the seller and this is what he came back with. I am copying and pasting his reply to my message as well as the original listing. Am I wrong in thinking that this is one of the most intentionally deceptive and mis-leading auction descriptions? Do I have a right to be as pissed about this as I am? I have never seen a multiple case break where "all paper base" wasn't for the entire break but rather divided into two different lots. But again, I could be in the wrong on that.

Additionally he included 5 Color/#'d cards that he sent to me as well. So not only do I feel that this was an intentional deception (but this is open to interpretation I understand) but he's sloppy to boot.

His message back to me:

You received ALL the hobby paper from 12 boxes/1 case. The description of the break states that this listing was for all hobby case paper and there was a seperate auction for the jumbo case paper. I did the hobby break first and all of the base paper from that break was put away before the next break and labeled hobby. All base paper cards were shipped out.

The original Headline of the Auction and the seller's description:

ALL “HOBBY CASE” BASE PAPER 2021 Bowman Jumbo + Hobby 20x Dual Case PLAYER BREAK

2021 BOWMAN BASEBALL JUMBO +HOBBY DUAL CASE PLAYER BREAK TOTAL OF 20 BOXES (12 HOBBY+ 8 JUMBO)

THIS LISTING FOR ALL THE UNSORTED "HOBBY CASE" BASE PAPER FROM THE BREAK. THERE IS NO CHROME OR COLOR/#D IN THIS.



NO REFUNDS OR CANCELLATIONS FOR FAILURE TO READ DESCRIPTION- PLEASE MESSAGE ME FOR ANY QUESTIONS

When:

This break will take place on THE DAY AUCTION ENDS AT 10 PM CST






IF YOU WIN MULTIPLE AUCTIONS PLEASE WAIT UNTIL INVOICE IS SENT TO COMBINE SHIPPING. ANY ORDERS WITH EXTRA PAID SHIPPING WILL NOT BE REFUNDED!!!![/QUOTE]

Yes, the description is misleading. But I think you have to take the L on this one and move on. It was marked Hobby Case base paper and that's what you received. When you buy into these eBay breaks, you have to understand what you're getting into. They are cheaper for a reason.

[QUOTE=mgiunta03;17315452]Contacted the seller and this is what he came back with. I am copying and pasting his reply to my message as well as the original listing. Am I wrong in thinking that this is one of the most intentionally deceptive and mis-leading auction descriptions? Do I have a right to be as pissed about this as I am? I have never seen a multiple case break where "all paper base" wasn't for the entire break but rather divided into two different lots. But again, I could be in the wrong on that.

Additionally he included 5 Color/#'d cards that he sent to me as well. So not only do I feel that this was an intentional deception (but this is open to interpretation I understand) but he's sloppy to boot.

His message back to me:

You received ALL the hobby paper from 12 boxes/1 case. The description of the break states that this listing was for all hobby case paper and there was a seperate auction for the jumbo case paper. I did the hobby break first and all of the base paper from that break was put away before the next break and labeled hobby. All base paper cards were shipped out.

The original Headline of the Auction and the seller's description:

ALL “HOBBY CASE” BASE PAPER 2021 Bowman Jumbo + Hobby 20x Dual Case PLAYER BREAK

2021 BOWMAN BASEBALL JUMBO +HOBBY DUAL CASE PLAYER BREAK TOTAL OF 20 BOXES (12 HOBBY+ 8 JUMBO)

[B]THIS LISTING FOR ALL THE UNSORTED "HOBBY CASE" BASE PAPER FROM THE BREAK. THERE IS NO CHROME OR COLOR/#D IN THIS.[/B]



NO REFUNDS OR CANCELLATIONS FOR FAILURE TO READ DESCRIPTION- PLEASE MESSAGE ME FOR ANY QUESTIONS

When:

This break will take place on THE DAY AUCTION ENDS AT 10 PM CST






IF YOU WIN MULTIPLE AUCTIONS PLEASE WAIT UNTIL INVOICE IS SENT TO COMBINE SHIPPING. ANY ORDERS WITH EXTRA PAID SHIPPING WILL NOT BE REFUNDED!!!![/QUOTE]
The bolded part looks pretty clear to me that you were bidding on solely the paper base cards from the hobby case that was being broken. He shouldn't have included any mention of the jumbo case in his description or title, but it does pretty clearly mention that the auction was only for the hobby case contents.

Yeah, looks like an L for me indeed

I mean, when you look at it in retrospect, yes, it does appear that way. I've done many a break before and am very good about reading the "fine print" and haven't ever felt like I got burned. BUT this one feels different. When you're reading the description after knowing what happened I feel as if it's obvious but if you're reading that description and bidding on it I think it's a whole different story.

I mean, I never would have bid as high on it as I did either had it been clear that it was only the "hobby" case. I think I rightly (although, hindsight being 20/20, that is not the case) assumed it was all paper for the entire dual case break and most people would think the same way I did when bidding on it.

And regardless it's SHADY behavior by the seller but I guess that's how this hobby goes these days. And admittedly I'm a collector that took a LONG hiatus up until about this time last year so it's not like I've been in this game continuously for the past twenty years but this is not good behavior by a seller IMO

I'd be pretty pissed about that too. That title is very misleading.

[QUOTE=mgiunta03;17315452]Contacted the seller and this is what he came back with. I am copying and pasting his reply to my message as well as the original listing. Am I wrong in thinking that this is one of the most intentionally deceptive and mis-leading auction descriptions? Do I have a right to be as pissed about this as I am? I have never seen a multiple case break where "all paper base" wasn't for the entire break but rather divided into two different lots. But again, I could be in the wrong on that.

Additionally he included 5 Color/#'d cards that he sent to me as well. So not only do I feel that this was an intentional deception (but this is open to interpretation I understand) but he's sloppy to boot.

His message back to me:

You received ALL the hobby paper from 12 boxes/1 case. The description of the break states that this listing was for all hobby case paper and there was a seperate auction for the jumbo case paper. I did the hobby break first and all of the base paper from that break was put away before the next break and labeled hobby. All base paper cards were shipped out.

The original Headline of the Auction and the seller's description:

ALL “HOBBY CASE” BASE PAPER 2021 Bowman Jumbo + Hobby 20x Dual Case PLAYER BREAK

2021 BOWMAN BASEBALL JUMBO +HOBBY DUAL CASE PLAYER BREAK TOTAL OF 20 BOXES (12 HOBBY+ 8 JUMBO)

THIS LISTING FOR ALL THE UNSORTED "HOBBY CASE" BASE PAPER FROM THE BREAK. THERE IS NO CHROME OR COLOR/#D IN THIS.



NO REFUNDS OR CANCELLATIONS FOR FAILURE TO READ DESCRIPTION- PLEASE MESSAGE ME FOR ANY QUESTIONS

When:

This break will take place on THE DAY AUCTION ENDS AT 10 PM CST






IF YOU WIN MULTIPLE AUCTIONS PLEASE WAIT UNTIL INVOICE IS SENT TO COMBINE SHIPPING. ANY ORDERS WITH EXTRA PAID SHIPPING WILL NOT BE REFUNDED!!!![/QUOTE]I don't think the title is too misleading.

I also think the seller should have more clearly emphasized in the details that you're bidding on 12 hobby boxes of paper AND that the 8 jumbo boxes of paper are a separate listing, to avoid confusion.

I've seen others list paper base by the case as well, so it's not an uncommon practice.

What are mega box retail prices?

[QUOTE=TimBuckTwo;17319198]What are mega box retail prices?[/QUOTE]

29.99